The theme at the Democratic Convention in Denver yesterday was "Renewing America's Promise"--the Democrats' plan to grow the economy and restore fairness so that it works for all of us. The 2007 Census data on poverty, income and health insurance was also released yesterday and it showed just how tall an order Senator Obama and the Democrats face in reversing eight years of failed Bush economic policies - policies we will continue to pay a price for in 2008 and beyond.

While the 2007 numbers don't even include the devastation wrought by the housing and credit crisis, and high energy costs, they nevertheless paint a bleak picture with poverty on the rise and working people's pay stagnating despite increased productivity.

Robert Greenstein, Executive Director of the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities said, "Though 2007 was the sixth (and likely the final) year of an economic expansion, 4.4 million more Americans were poor, the median income of non-elderly households was $1,100 lower, and nearly six million more Americans were uninsured than in 2001 - even though the economy was in recession that year.... Never before on record has poverty been higher and median income for working-age households lower at the end of a multi-year economic expansion than at the beginning. The new data add to the mounting evidence that the gains from the 2001-2007 expansion were concentrated among high-income Americans."

"We have the biggest gap between the rich and everybody else since the Great Depression," said Independent Senator Bernie Sanders on Vermont Public Radio.

Jared Bernstein, Director of the Living Standards program at the Economic Policy Institute, agreed with Sanders. He suggested that we have the greatest concentration of wealth in the richest 1 percent of the country than we've had since 1928. Bernstein noted that the economic expansion failed to lift working people's incomes despite that fact that "output per hour, or productivity, rose 2.5 percent per year during the 2000 to 2007 cycle, compared to 2 percent in the 1990s, when family incomes fared much better.... The economy... expanded in the 2000s, but that growth clearly failed to reach most households, a dynamic that implicates growing income inequality.... The fact that these disappointing income, poverty, and earnings trends occurred in the context of strong productivity growth is a reminder that in today's economy, productivity growth creates only the potential for higher living standards. As long as most workers lack the bargaining power to claim their share of the growth they have helped to generate, that potential will not be realized."

The Bush administration will tout 2007 as the first decline in number of uninsured during its tenure. But Greenstein pointed out that private coverage continued to erode and "the improvement in health care coverage in 2007 was due to more Americans obtaining coverage through government health insurance programs, principally Medicare and Medicaid." Surely, that's not what the Bush Administration was gunning for. In fact, Greenstein said the Congressional Budget Office estimated that four million more children would be insured had President Bush not twice vetoed expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). In all, nearly 46 million Americans did not have health insurance last year.

As for poverty, it's first worth noting that the standard of measurement is woefully inadequate. The federal poverty guideline for a family of four is $21,203 in 2007. Bernstein has suggested a more accurate measure of "material deprivation" using recommendations from the National Academy of Sciences. But even using the federal standard, 816,000 more people slipped into poverty in 2007, meaning 37.3 million Americans or 12.5 percent of our population lived below the federal poverty line. That figure includes 18 percent of all children under the age of 18, and over 20 percent of related children under age six. The poverty rate was 24.5 percent for African-Americans and 21.5 percent for Hispanics. 50.9 million people , or 17 percent of all Americans, lived on less than 125 percent of the federal poverty level in 2007 (approximately $26,000 for a family of four).

The Food Research and Action Center (FRAC) - a national non-profit working to address hunger and poverty - wrote in a released statement, "The 12.5 percent rate in 2007 compares to 11.3 percent in 2000. It is unprecedented that poverty is higher at this point in an economic growth cycle, and the damage from the failure of the economy's growth to lift more people out of poverty is huge: if the 2007 poverty rate were just the same as in 2000, approximately six million fewer Americans would have lived in poverty in 2007. All signs are that the poverty rate will be driven higher in 2008 by a slowing economy and skyrocketing costs for housing, energy and food."

There seems to be little disagreement about that.

"The data for 2007 are of particular concern given that the economy is now in a slowdown, and poverty is almost certainly higher now--and incomes lower--than in 2007," Greenstein said. "The 2007 levels... are likely to constitute a high-water mark for the next few years."

"When the data become available for 2008, the picture will undoubtedly grow more grim," wrote Michael Ettlinger, Vice President of Economic Policy at the Center for American Progress. "Average real weekly earnings are down 2.4 percent so far this year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics."

So where should an Obama Administration and Democratic Congress set their sights?

Greenstein said the next President and Congress should set a national goal to reduce poverty and act on it. Other organizations have pushed hard on this too. The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), the Center for American Progress Action Fund, the Coalition on Human Needs, and the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights are together cooperating on the Half in Ten project, working to promote a national goal to reduce poverty by 50 percent in ten years. Greenstein also argued for supporting state Medicaid programs by temporarily boosting federal support, and reconsidering the Bush-vetoed legislation expanding coverage for children.

FRAC President Jim Weill focused on a second stimulus package and the need to boost food stamps as a record number of people turn to them. "We will hear a lot this fall from Presidential and Congressional candidates about their vision for America's economic future. A reinvigorated fight against hunger and poverty must be an essential part of this vision," he said.

When it comes to vision on poverty there is little comparison between the presidential candidates. Senator Obama is talking about a new energy economy, rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, union organizing, pay equity and a more progressive tax system. While his policies may not be bold enough during the campaign, the facts on the ground---mounting foreclosures, more people out of work--will demand more of a Democratic administration.Senator McCain, on the other hand, is hopelessly out of touch--saying the economy is "fundamentally sound" and poverty isn't even listed as an issue on his campaign website.

These recent figures show there is a powerful need for Obama and Democrats to put poverty back on the national radar. The grim stats on the ground and the lives intertwined with them demand a bold agenda. Beyond Obama and the Democrats, such an agenda needs independent organizing to drive it, much the way the 1963 March on Washington eventually helped drive the War on Poverty. Ending a trillion dollar war and redirecting some of those resources back home is key as well.

Unless (and until) we tackle the gap between the very rich and the rest of America--including the growing number of people falling into poverty --it will be increasingly difficult to confront the major challenges of our time.

The truth is, lifting the boats at the bottom has historically been good for all Americans.

Comments (59)

1. As long as most workers lack the bargaining power to claim their share of the growth they have helped to generate, that potential will not be realized."

   An outright lie.

   In the US everyone has the ability to change jobs; change states; start their own business and follow their dreams.

   Only marxists see the need for unions and govt coercion as necessary to enable people.

   Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/27/2008 @ 12:39pm

2. lvliberty-I'm not a Marxist,but do see the need for unions.Sorry.

   Posted by i'm nobody at 08/27/2008 @ 12:52pm

3. Only marxists see the need for unions and govt coercion as necessary to enable people.

   Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/27/2008 @ 12:39pm

   So, under your theory, the people of Israel, under the foot of Egypt, should have been happy with their brick laying jobs and not complained. Because there were plenty of jobs to be had and plenty of work to go around. They didn't need anyone on there side to help them out.....wooops, didn't God step in and get them out of bondage?! I guess God is part of the labor union! lol

   Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2008 @ 12:58pm

4. Should we follow your advice here as in Iraq? Stop, drop everything, and cut and run..bail out, end it now, quit and forget the whole thing ?

   Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/27/2008 @ 12:47pm

   No, and here's why. The people of Iraq are not American citizens. The welfare of the citizens of the United States IS THE JOB OF THE U.S. government, not the welfare of international corporations.

   Why is it that you are a whore for corporate welfare at every turn, but God forbid that unwealthy people get a break.

   If you think the poor have it so grand here in the U.S. perhaps you should join their ranks since they are living so high on the hog. Both you and Liv spew forth your right wing propaganda and try to act patriotic, but when it comes down to actually lifting the poor of this country up, you would rather let them starve.

   Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2008 @ 1:06pm

5. Pretty much if you support anything more from the Fed except the Interstate Highway System and NASA...

   LVLIB thinks you're a "Marxist".

   (Here's where he denies it...then later, with some teeth pulling posts, he admits that "Okay, yes, FDR was a Marxist too, just more subtle about it"...and negates his previous denial. Just to save time, thought I'd jump ahead!...heheh)

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 1:07pm

6. BTW, few if any of Ms vanden Heuvel's dreams will come to fruition...

   we've got YEARS of Republican "fiscal responsibility" (otherwise always known as "deficits" and "debt") to pay off first...before we start thinking about Christmas.

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 1:08pm

7. "In the US everyone has the ability to change jobs; change states; start their own business and follow their dreams. "

   There's no helping this clueless wackjob so don't even bother, people.

   Posted by Pimpcane24 at 08/27/2008 @ 1:12pm

8. lvliberty-Thanks to the Bush economy people are going to be worried about heating their houses,if they have one, and not pursuing their dreams.

   Posted by i'm nobody at 08/27/2008 @ 1:25pm

9. I could, and probably should if at least for my own edification, take KVH's post apart sectionally. But really it comes to a single kernel of diametrically opposed ideological constructs. I believe in free market capitalism with every fiber of my being. I believe it does the most good for the most people. I believe our existence has been immeasurably improved by capitalism, economically and socially, and most certainly with regard to classical liberalism. For reasons unknown to me KVH does not hold these beliefs. KVH demonstrates a peculiar affinity for looking beyond the plain and obvious truths of our very existence -- which cannot be forcefully enough described as the unchallenged pinnacle of the human experience -- and into a self constructed paradigm of hopelessness, decline and general malaise.

   I'm very literally happy I'm not KVH. For my world enjoys a much more beautiful and hospital environment.

   Posted by Person at 08/27/2008 @ 1:31pm

10. being poor is not glorified..or to be celebrated...it is a great motivator to get out of it...

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/27/2008 @ 1:22pm

    JM, Kudos to you for getting out of it. Have you ever thought that maybe you might be more talented than other, possibly more educated or perhaps maybe even lucky to have gotten out of being poor?

    I have been near the bottom myself and am now pretty in the middle income bracket. Luck, family and sticking with it got me out of my mess. But, things coud have been different for me and I often wonder what might have happened if different variables were involved.

    I guess my point is to have a little compassion for those who are not doing so well. Especially if you've been there.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2008 @ 1:43pm

11. This is not brain surgery! It was no accident of fate that we came the Industrial nation for most of our history. We had a "Planned Economy"! The "Plan" was Alexander Hamilton's "Report on Manufactures" which he made to Congress at their Request. During the American Revolution we were dependent on foreign governments (France) for arms, money, some troops, and their navy. It was felt that we needed an industrial base to support our national defense and create an independent, self sustaining national economy. There is no independence without economic independence! Tariffs were put in place to protect our infant manufacturing base from cheap goods from industrialized states, which, at this stage of the game, meant Great Britain. Behind this tariff wall, according to plan, American industries were created, whose workers were feed by American farmers. Jobs were created by these industries. This was Hamilton's Plan. Later in response to the excesses of the Industrial Revolution, the Progressive movement regulated big business, setting health and safety standards to protect workers and the general public. We know what to do, but we have to make the government do it.

    Posted by P. J. Casey at 08/27/2008 @ 2:01pm

12. It seems to me we are engaging in 1950's thinking about unions and industrial activity when there has been a sea change in the way people are employed. A few decades ago a union job with large employers was considered something of a sinecure where one could work earning top wages until age 60 or so and retire with a generous pension and extensive health care benefits.

    Things have changed.

    Now many businesses employ significant percentages of temporary workers (temps) who come and go according to demand. Usually they lack benefits. We routinely see predictions that many people starting in the job market now will change careers several times during their working years.

    And, we are competing with workers of the world, not just people here. So there is a real economic limit on what workers can demand. A business has to make money to be able to afford employees.

    We need some 21st century thinking here' the old ways won't work.

    Posted by jsens at 08/27/2008 @ 2:02pm

13. It is intolerable that the first economic power on earth allows a tenth of its population living in poverty. Republicans argue that the cost of a Universal Health Care system will hamper the economic growth. But, they have never pondered that the productivity of an economy with bad health facilities or what is the lack of consumption that proceeds from expensive – sometimes insurmountable – health cost. I will go further, what is the dead loss in income of decades without a Universal health system. France's ones does well, and they have thanks to it the highest productivity per workers increase of all the OECD countries.

    A workfare is costlier than a true welfare.

    Posted by yanovsky at 08/27/2008 @ 2:32pm

14. To have children in this country, the land of the free and the home of the brave, without adequate healthcare is a national disgrace. The military and the Congress both have socialized medicine that works, why not the children of this country. If you have sick children and you can't afford to have adequate health care take them to the nearest McCain rally, or Fox News or better yet drop them off at Limbaugh's house, wait table that, he might eat them when the OxiContin and the Viagra wear off.

    Posted by Macattack at 08/27/2008 @ 2:43pm

15. Posted by jsens

    There's nothing new in your pathetic statement. It's always imperative to "cut costs", "compete"& "insure profitability" & always at the expense of the worker. Your thinking is hackneyed & absurd. You typify those who are racing toward the bottom. Unrepentant fools like yourself degrade humanity. New catchphrases to perpetuate greed are emblematic of the right & will continue to be spun. I'm sure you're waiting.

    Posted by Sorelish at 08/27/2008 @ 3:22pm

16. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Katrina.

    I notice you call them the VERY rich now.

    Is that to distinguish them from the Almost Very Rich, like..uh..

    You?

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 08/27/2008 @ 3:39pm

17. Here's something a few of you "patriotic" folks posting here seemed to have forgotten.

    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    Wave the flag all you like, but you crap all over your poor, don't let them breath and get all huffy if they cut into your profits. If you don't care about the poor here, you sure as hell don't care about the poor coming into this country as immigrants.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2008 @ 4:05pm

18. Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 08/27/2008 @ 3:39pm

    It IS always hard to take Ms vanden Heuvel's attacks on the rich...given her heiress status which she tries to hide by claiming she lives in "Harlem"...when it's the "Upper" Upper East Side...

    or when she advertises going on a CRUISE in the same web issue that a discussion of "How much high falutin' food and exclusive parties are being put on at the Democratic Convention, which should be more populist!"

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 4:41pm

19. Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 4:41pm

    Mask, I'd be willing to bet that KVH's investments are with non-war related, environmentally friendly companies that treat their employees fairly. Can't believe you wouldn't have the same view.

    Posted by Sorelish at 08/27/2008 @ 5:02pm

20. We need a high ranking elected offical like Senator Obama to lead by example. We need a wealthy person with power to lower their standard of living to that which is achievable by all Americans.

    It is simply not possible for everyone in the United States to become a millionaire or a billionaire or even make hundreds of thousands of dollars. This has nothing to do with lack of opportunity, or not taking risks or not being innovative or not being willing to change their job.

    We need and have a large fraction of the population that we all are dependent on to keep us alive by producing our food! These people will never make the salary of a congressman, president, or CEO, yet these are the people that must do their job.

    If we keep falsely believing that everyone has the opportunity to become a millionaire or a billionaire or even make hundreds of thousands of dollars under this system we will continue to slide down hill.

    Our society appears to have limited our choices to communism or capitalism. I feel that is too simplistic and not realistic. If there is any hope of peoples existing in harmony with each other, we are going to have to study and change our current economic system.

    I think the place to start is to recognize that the current economic system is dependent on people who can not make gluttonous wages and that our leaders need to come down to an economic level that is achievable by all or at least they should grow and harvest their own food...oh right they don't have time.

    Posted by Joel Cooper at 08/27/2008 @ 6:01pm

21. Eh. To Jom and Darin poverty is no one's fault but your own. If you are poor it is because you did something wrong and it is your problem. There is no compassion.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/27/2008 @ 7:01pm

22. Of course when execs sink a company there are all kinds of extenuating circumstances and it is never their fault. As Darin said Bush sinking multiple companies wasn't his fault. But when you are poor everything is your fault.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/27/2008 @ 7:02pm

23. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008 @ 6:19pm

    One of the illegals has a trained monkey kept around for a few laughs at break time. One lunch hour the evil capitalist shows up for inspection & the monkey climbs up on him & starts pulling his hair, looking into his shirt pocket while making funny faces. Everybodys laughing & having a great time.On cue the monkey's owner signals his simian companion. The monkey shits in it's hand & wipes it on the evil capitalists face. Holy crap! Uproar city! Pedro grabs the chain saw & splits with everybody else for their car. They blast away in fits of laughter & head down the road to the evil one's competitor. They relate the story to their new boss & he's rolling on the ground. A real gut buster. Meanwhile the monkey shrieks. All eyes rivet on the monkey's upraised hand. The evil one's cell phone!

    The moral- Don't let shit come between us.

    Posted by Sorelish at 08/27/2008 @ 7:03pm

24. Posted by Sorelish at 08/27/2008 @ 5:02pm

    Didn't mention investments, Sore.

    Mentioned that she likes to claim she lives in "Harlem", when she resides in an area a bit more "gentrified"...

    and that as you had Ari Berman complaining about all the fancy food and exclusive parties at the DNC...

    "The Nation" is running ads for an OCEAN CRUISE.

    Or maybe "The Nation Cruise" is some kind of "low budget" affair with $100 per person rooms and the ship runs off of solar panels (and doesn't dump CO2 into the atmosphere with NO "carbon credit" boughts)????

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 7:57pm

25. 37 million people who go hungry , several million without shelter, 47 million without health care and there are still those sycophants who still shill for corporate greed and gluttony. If new Orleans is the quintessential example of rising tide lifts all boats, except those who don't have a boat, of course. When you drain a fresh water lake to fill a swamp you end up with two swamps. The top 10 percent of Americans own 80 percent of the wealth, and sovereign wealth funds are buying up the rest. I heard recently that a state wanted to sell one of its toll highways to a foreign country. I watched Warren Buffet fly back from China after closing a billion dollar deal with the Chinese for cheap labor. It is hard to feel sorry for the American worker from forty thousand feet in your corporate jet. Anyone who thinks that a Walmart greeter job will replace a job on the assembly line at GM is smoking some really fine stuff. Share it will you? The Chinese economy, a managed economy, is growing at 17 plus percent while ours is barely maintaining one percent. If we all go back to school we can all get a job at Micky D's.

    Posted by lachatte at 08/27/2008 @ 9:03pm

26. Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 7:57pm

    Well Mask, I'm not interested in a strict redistribution of wealth. I've opted for a "peasant" lifestyle.(Retirement after 20 years as a bookseller) Chop wood, carry water. My wife & I try to keep our health up. We have an extensive library. Electronic access to the outside world. Some care to be closer to the hubs of political & cultural affairs. That is their choice. I will travel vicariously as I'm doing right now, reading of Albanov's trials on the Arctic icepack. My wife's faux Tiffany lamp gives a cozy light. More power to those who sail on the Nation's cruise. These people want us to have health care, winter heating & affordable food & most importantly, the good paying jobs to enable the maintenance of a family. As for Ari Berman, its me agreeing with him on the hors d'oeuvre story.

    Posted by Sorelish at 08/27/2008 @ 9:20pm

27. Only marxists see the need for unions

    Splattered by lvliberty1 at 08/27/2008 @ 12:39pm

    sir,

    100 years ago people worked for shit in shitty conditions.

    people said, "fuck this".

    they fought back.

    they created the middle class.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:22pm

28. we've got YEARS of Republican "fiscal responsibility" (otherwise always known as "deficits" and "debt") to pay off first...before we start thinking about Christmas.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 1:08pm

    whadda ya mean?

    the chinese, russians, and saudis couldn't be more willing to lend money!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:24pm

29. For my world enjoys a much more beautiful and HOSPITAL environment.

    Posted by Person at 08/27/2008 @ 1:31pm

    ha ha.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:25pm

30. Posted by P. J. Casey at 08/27/2008 @ 2:01pm

    tariffs and subsidies are icky.

    not doing business with assholes is a better start.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:27pm

31. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2008 @ 4:05pm

    fuckin' right!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:29pm

32. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/27/2008 @ 4:05pm

    goddam frenchies don't know shit.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:30pm

33. " CRUISE " Posted by Maskdelta at 08/27/2008 @ 4:41pm

    mmmmmm,

    bacon.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:31pm

34. After they fight to the death for the $3 per hour job, whoever is left alive replaces Pedro.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008

    ah, a fight to the bottom.

    well, that bodes well for america.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:34pm

35. After they fight to the death for the $3 per hour job, whoever is left alive replaces Pedro.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008

    till they hack down all the trees 'cause the evil capitalist is too stupid to realize that trees grow on trees.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:34pm

36. Here endeth the economics lesson.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008

    here begineth the laughter.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:35pm

37. You have a lot of explaining to do..

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/27/2008 @ 6:36pm

    do you wear seatbelts?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:36pm

38. My guess is her trust is invested wherever the tax lawyer put it to minimize taxes.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008

    yours, too, america hater.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:37pm

39. Outside of what people are arguing about, I really like the fact that Bill Clinton quoted some of these statistics in his speech tonight. Impressive.

    I work for an Employment Agency in San Francisco and poverty is so complex that it is sheer idiocy to proclaim that you could easily switch your situation to make it better. Move to a different state? With what money? Move jobs? This is a challenge when it's difficult to take off of work to look for better jobs and to do interviews. This is more challenging when you have children.

    A family of four in San Francisco is reported as having to earn $75,000/yr. to make it by. The minimum wage is $9.36/hr and unless you share your housing with others, at that pay, you are a paycheck from the street.

    Now, if corporate entities would not be allowed off of the hook so easily, raising the cost of everything at will, although people are struggling, we may be able to see some change.

    We are at a turning point in history. The wealthies folks in our nation cannot thrive without everyone else supporting their prosperity. Hopefully it doesn't take a financial/social catastrophe to teach them that very basic, elementary - lesson.

    Posted by Brannu at 08/28/2008 @ 12:05am

40. The wealthies folks in our nation cannot thrive without everyone else supporting their prosperity.

    Posted by Brannu at 08/28/2008 @ 12:05am

    what do you think "globalization" is for?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/28/2008 @ 12:33am

41. This link is for Happy, Liver, JM, MBB and the rest who think things are just dandy out there. In this particular story, this poor lady, living high on the hog, lives in a trailer house, worked all of her life and went bankrupt.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/27/business/main4390571.shtml

    While things like this are happening every day to common people, the God damned justice department is asking that Abramoff's prison time should be reduced for cooperating with the feds investigations. NOT. Guys that swindle money out of people should be doing the equivalent time for what your average person makes in a lifetime. Good old Abramoff swindeled about 20 million. That would be several people's net worth for life. He should never see the light of day again.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/28/2008 @ 06:41am

42. Hyperbole anyone?

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008 @ 6:36pm

    Have you ever heard of the term usary? Basically that's how our economy runs...on debt.

    Here's the trick. Convince people they need things they don't really need and get them to buy said items (that they can't afford). Step 2) Get person to aquire loan from money you don't have to loan, but the contract the person agrees to (unwittingly) says they will repay you that money with interest.

    Rinse/wash and repeat. That person is now forever in your debt trying to pay off his loans for a bunch of useless crap. Meanwhile the loaner, who never had the money to loan in the first place has a steady source of income from the labor of the guy buying stuff he didn't need in the first place.

    Neat little trick, isn't it.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/28/2008 @ 06:49am

43. The were lured here with the promise to follow their dreams, not with the promise that they could never fail.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/27/2008 @ 6:47pm

    Troll Boy, So, poor people and immigrants can fall flat on their faces, because of course there is not promise that they could never fail.

    But, the banking and wall street industries, on the other hand, deserve to be bailed out at all costs by the same people you think deserve to fail if they make bad choices? You and your ilk are nothing but whores for the ultra rich. You think because you have a job paying around $200K to $300K that you are part of their club. I have a bulletin for you, you're not.

    If they decide to break the likes of you, they will right along with the rest of us. You are not isolated from events of the world economy, nor do you have control over whether or not you may be shoveling shit one day yourself.

    Do you know why many of the elite dove out windows during the great depression? They couldn't cut it in the real world. The poor can and have handled it, they deal with the real world every day. You on the other hand, evidently live in never never land, but reality does have a way of biting everyone in the ass now and then.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/28/2008 @ 06:58am

44. goddam frenchies don't know shit.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/27/2008 @ 9:30pm

    In Bush's book, the only thing we got from the French is....drum roll please, freedom fries.

    It's nice how the rethugs neatly package their bullshit in categorize each agrument to fit their greed and need for aquisition of all things good and bad.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/28/2008 @ 07:05am

45. the "maverick" straight talker has voted with bush 95% of the time and promises to continue policy of no estate tax, favoring off shore tax shelters, subsidies paid by you and me to oil and gas companies so quarter after quarter after quarter they can break record profits off the sweat and hard work of us peons.....promises to keep tax cuts to rich....concentrates ONLY on offshore oil drilling which will meet only small demand a decade from now whenever congress allows it, if it wasn't for bush idiocy and divisiveness, our govt. would be much more effective now....bush's fault it is so partisan and nothing gets accomplished, congress tired of getting s h i t upon for eight years while bush enlarges scope of exec. power, refuses subpoenas, commits an unending litany of impeachable offenses and assaults human dignity....and gets off, is on vacation 1/3 of last eights years, almost three years on vacation, taken a dozen trips overseas in the past few months, just what he criticized clinton for taking ONE TRIP in last month of presidency....decided to go to olympics when russia is invading another country, a 911 moment when he was reading to kindergarten class too STUPID to react....more of the same mcbush '08

    Posted by jrs112 at 08/28/2008 @ 10:30am

46. More power to those who sail on the Nation's cruise. These people want us to have health care, winter heating & affordable food & most importantly, the good paying jobs to enable the maintenance of a family.----Posted by Sorelish at 08/27/2008 @ 9:20pm

    Re-read your "Animal Farm", Sore...see if that doesn't sound a bit "Horsey" to you.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/28/2008 @ 1:54pm

47. Posted by Maskdelta at 08/28/2008 @ 1:54pm

    Now Mask, you wouldn't be advocating mutualism, would you?

    Posted by Sorelish at 08/28/2008 @ 9:48pm

48. Now I have a desk job in the coner office. I prefer the latter, but could got back to the former tomorrow if I needed to inorder to feed my family.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/28/2008 @ 4:37pm

    Sounds like you've had a life similar to mine. After working jobs like that, I don't know how you could vote rethug. Why should people have to break their backs in order to get an education to be able to reach their full potential?

    I know a lot of guys who said, college is not for me, and they were and are happy doing work like this, but for people who like to use their minds, it's not necessarily the best or even most economical route to use their skill set. In fact, it's a waste of resources having future engineers emptying garbages so they can barely scrap by to get their degree.

    If someone chooses to do hard labor jobs like that, it's one thing, but when it's your only alternative between starving or not, it's another thing.

    P.S. I'm the same as you. If I had to go back to that to feed my family, I would.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 11:53am

49. Did you know that about 40% of our national budget is being spent on the military - a blank check with no questions asked and something like 3-4% on education?

    Exponential growth of poverty in America is the direct result of our spending priorities. More money we spend on wars, less money we have to invest at home. Very simple.

    Unfortunately, our short-sided greedy representatives in congress and the Senate don't seem to care much about long-term consequences of U.S. militarism.

    If we analyze the downfalls of past imperialist powers, we can see a very clear trend. Every single one over-extended itself outside of its borders and went bankrupt. e.g. Russian Empire, Nazi Germany, Ottoman Empire, Roman Empire etc.

    Have we not learned anything from history? I guess not.

    Posted by diogenes2 at 08/29/2008 @ 2:48pm

50. Every single one over-extended itself outside of its borders and went bankrupt. e.g. Russian Empire, Nazi Germany, Ottoman Empire, Roman Empire etc.

    Have we not learned anything from history? I guess not.

    Posted by diogenes2 at 08/29/2008 @ 2:48pm

    Well put. We're heading to the same fate of the former Soviet Union. It's just taking us a little longer to bottom out is all. Our military spending is killing us and for what? All that military spending didn't stop a few Saudi's from boarding planes and flying them into some buildings.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:48pm

51. The American model of economic growth is based on "mass consumption". With today's jobs - manufacturing flew abroad-real salaries have decreased such that that cannot be true anymore.

    If as per KV, 17% of the people are under 125% of property level, I would bet that at least twice of that (33% of the population) are meager consumers; i.e. their level of consumption is equivalent to the one in 3rd world countries (in quantity/quality of goods, not dollars). So only 2/3 of the population are consumers and the number is decreasing every year.

    The model is crumbling because of the failure of the economy to create a strong "middle income sector" other than poor old government's firefighters, policemen, or teachers. In fact, goverment at all levels, is taking more and more the burden of employment whereas the private sector works in the modality of "temporary contracts".

    We can see that income level of pilots, doctors or lawyers (and high executives) probably is 5 to ten times that the rest of the population employed in the private sector. Who are they going to sell their services in the future?

    Posted by Frank42 at 08/30/2008 @ 01:38am

52. i used to be in favor of some mandatory service, until we got the chimp in the office and his warmonger henchmen, playing 'risk' on the world stage with our soldiers.

    Posted by vertigo23 at 08/31/2008 @ 10:49pm

53. It was that smart people have an easier time making money.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/30/2008 @ 1:40pm

    well,

    between you, me, and mozart,

    that ain't necessarily so.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 01:13am

54. I am a big fan of two years of mandatory military service for every 18-year old kid

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/30/2008

    no way.

    plant some frikkin' trees instead of landmines.

    same for the able bodied on welfare.

    no welfare.

    planttreesfare.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 01:14am

55. The second statement is a truthful lie. Yes, the feds only spend 3% to 4% on education because over 90% of education money comes from the state and local governments because you get more accountability having a lower level of government responsible for this need.

    the accountability should be local,

    the funding federal.

    with local funding, poor areas get poorer.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 01:16am

56. "the bell curve" is nonsense.

    each person,

    like each possum or cockroach,

    is individual.

    they each have their own sets of skills.

    sure,

    he may not be able to remember the 13th president of south uppitiville,

    but he just fixed your transmission.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 01:20am

57. every apple tastes different, even from the same tree.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 09:13am

58. But most apples are socialized & equally crushed into Juice or stuffed into cans for pie fillings....heheheh!

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 09/01/2008 @ 09:45am

    only by people who "think" efficiency is the only thing.

    the rest of us enjoy them.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 2:57pm

59. We shop at Sam's, one just a mile away from us, every couple of weeks for bottled water (wife & son aren't as green as tapwater HAPPY), 12-roll paper towels, ass wipes, coffee, etc...and racks of lamb (excellent!). Lots of people "think" efficiency in the form of bulk buying, leads to "efficiency" in burning ones' money :~)

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 09/01/2008 @ 7:59pm

    we've made honey bees efficient. now, they die.

    nature likes redundancies.

    eggs in basket stuff........

    forget those paper towels. rip up a few of those bob dole t-shirts you've got lying around and make some rags.

    don't buy cheap coffee. coffee farmers get screwed by exchange rates. give them their due.

    forget the toilet paper. use legal tender instead and cut out the middle man.

    lamb. baaaaaaadd choice. our little animal slaves give their lives so willingly, don'tcha agree?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 8:17pm